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Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.18 15:10:00 - [1] Originally by: CCP Greyscale Edited by: CCP Greyscale on 18/10/2007 14:40:38 The point? Most capsuleers treat the EVE cluster as a game to be played, a resource to be exploited, a platform to build their own little dreams on. They don't waste effort on talking nicely unless they think it'll serve their purpose, they don't care about the bigger picture unless doing so benefits them personally and they'll not give the slightest bit of slack to anyone who has no percieved value to them. And in acting like this they're exactly what the prime fiction says they should be, even though they don't realise it. And they look at RPers in their purely "OOC" way and see them as a waste of space, a bunch of posturing fools who're fighting over the honor of pretend empires in a way that doesn't have any real effect on the game they're playing. And if they were to look at it from an "IC" perspective, they'd find that from their self-interested perspective many RPers are indeed a bunch of posturing fools who're fighting over the honor of pretend empires in a way that doesn't have any real effect on the game they're playing. That's how most RP-activity looks to most people who don't think about the IC/OOC distinction, and that's the way it looks to someone who's conscienciously playing the archetypical capsuleer - people claiming to care about non-capsuleer entities are either crazy or stupid or playing some little private game of their own, faking sincerity in order to gain some subtle advantage. The backstory is set up to reflect how people really are, and in doing so ensures that most players are acting exactly as the prime fiction dictates without even realizing it, and that includes looking at RPers with a mixture of annoyance, derision and slowly-mounting suspicion. That's the most refreshing honest, exciting and brutal post I've seen from a member of the CCP developer team on the subject of roleplay in eve for many years. Congratulations Greyscale, I'd be happy to buy you a drink for that, Bravo. Its absolutely beautiful to see this stuff in writing underpinning the mythic direction of the "capule pilot" paradigm on the live server. It actually gives me a lot of faith in the future direction of the game given the interpretations I and my corpmates have made on Prime Fiction and general principles over the last four years. I love the idea of capsule pilots being on the verge of posthuman revolution seperating them from the old planetbound cultures and carving futures of diaspora and self-interest and radical freedoms on the frontier. This stuff is gold dust and it will set up the scheme for beautiful drama in the death throes of the old empires who at some point are going to have to fight against their posthuman children to preserve their desperately slipping grip on the status quo. Quote: That's how most RP-activity looks to most people who don't think about the IC/OOC distinction, and that's the way it looks to someone who's conscienciously playing the archetypical capsuleer - people claiming to care about non-capsuleer entities are either crazy or stupid or playing some little private game of their own, faking sincerity in order to gain some subtle advantage. Beautiful to be honest. Thats exactly how I see it, and its fantastically encouraging to see the Dev team understanding and sympathising with this perspective and having the courage to put it to black and white writing on the Eve-online forums. Excellent. Yet, there are issues still with the general size/scale of meaningful conflicts in the cluster and I'm sure you guys will admit that while the full focus has been on alliance and sovereignty mechanics this last year the "survivors" those heroic little rats in the wainscoting of territorial power have been left a little in the cold. Lets hope that with future expansions we'll see tricks and cunning and sabotage and more covert options for the rebels to use in sticking it to the man. Star Fraction is recruiting
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.18 15:31:00 - [2] Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 18/10/2007 15:34:13 Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Originally by: Death Kill My impression is that these events happend mostly in alliance space. Is this true? mostly in empire space actually. Problem was the events were generally very small and relatively pre-programmed. Aurora simply didn't have the manpower to simulate large hostile fleets and this meant the norm tended into show and tell local text exposition-fests. Where I personally feel that Aurora missed a trick was in being the spark between actual player entities coming to blows and trading wardecs and full campaigns. Aurora tended to play the role of hostile force X,Y,Z but didn't have the manpower to truly making it threatening - whereas I believe they should have been the "firestarters" being the people that setup reasons and consequences to player on player fighting. The event's I've personally seen have ranged in quality from "excellent" (the elaral massacre) to "mediocre" (couple of guys smacktalking in local in green text) but while I've always respected the time and dedication of the volunteers doing this stuff - I have had some major doubts as to the general strategy of what aurora was trying to (or allowed to) achieve in game. Specifically - my personal take was always that if you have a GM/Events Team/Gamesmaster whatever you what to call it - orchestrating events and making things happen then at a very early point they should be asking themselves: "what is this going to achieve?" "What is at stake?" "How we do we get the maximum amount of players involved in a way that is significant and interesting to their characters?" And genuinely didn't see this stuff being the state of play in the latter phase of Aurora events and far too many just finished without an appropriate test of arms or clash between player entities contesting a truly open-ended outcome. The issue (as I see it) was threefold: 1. It was clear Aurora was damaged by the knock on effects of all the scandals and loss of faith in the general player base to corruption and whatnot earlier in the year. Had the effect of making people question everything and accuse everything and the loss of trust and suspension of disbelief hurt the general progress of events. 2. It was also clear that Aurora didn't really have the tools to make the outcomes of events binding or consequential or to deliver real in-game pain to people that were contesting the field against their proxy empires to balance the rewards that could be won in the test. Not being able to change corporate standings as a result of in-game choices tended to make these things a bit crazy. I'm sure the Amarrian nationalists would love to be given -10 Matari standings and chased by the Minmatar navy as soon as they cross the border and same goes for their foes and amarr space. 3. As a personal thing I think that Aurora was too intent on "storytelling" and not focused enough on setting up open ended situations where anything could happen if the right (or wrong) people did things and made a show of force at the right (or wrong) times. I think the Aurora people wrote out these beautifully detailed and elaborately researched scripts and background documents but somehow forgot one of the prime rules of tabletop gm'ing in that the player group will always do something you don't expect and that a good GM never throws up his (or her) hands with frustration but simply ad libs and keeps the session going to its logical conclusions. I've seen Aurora event logs where the actors really do look flustered and confused when the players don't go along with the script - and its this stuff that can really be improved upon in the future. Anyway. Thanks a bunch to all the CCP people posting in this thread - its lovely to see some open and honest debate and really does fill me (as a player) with a lot of faith for the future. All the best. Star Fraction is recruiting
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.18 15:47:00 - [3] Originally by: Missy X Read between the lines and it's really just a case of "I want to be more powerful". I'd advise you to do more reading of the words and less making up what you imagine to be "between the lines". No constructive debate comes from putting up straw man arguments you say exist. Address whats actually said and make your case honestly and we'll make progress. There is a real issue being discussed and and don't imagine for a moment you're seeing anyone from SF whining about wanting to be "more powerful". I mean come on? We're 90 people that got a couple of EON articles, many news pieces, tournament thrills and spills, eve tv nods and mentions and plenty of event involvement at times in our history. You're seriously barking up the wrong tree if you think we're whining for anything - if SF wants notoriety we go out there with starships and claim that mythology for ourselves and over our 4 years of history in the cluster we've done just that. But this thread isn't about SF - its about what it takes to be a roleplayer in eve - what the issues are, and what the future holds. Reading back through the ooc forums lead in post it was originally an answer to Mr Vapor's question "whatever happened to the RP community?" and as an answer its all about not blaming individuals and feuds and such but honestly looking at whats happened to the environment of the broad campaign. So I'll ask you as a special favour - please quit with the partizan attacks against whatever corp or alliance or individual you don't like and just look at the issue not the personalities. I promise you that it'll gain you more respect and notice yourself if you address matters in this way. Star Fraction is recruiting
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.18 15:53:00 - [4] Originally by: Riddari Like the colonial posthumans of America? History is full of examples of the "children" fighting against "the old", we have millenias worth of such occurences taking place, from continental scales to small villages. I don't see much posthuman about it. Your historical context is right, but in eve its a technological rift between the new and old countries. The eve capsule "colonists" are going to a new world of immortality and machine interface integration not across the atlantic to America but its just the same process eventually. The old empires are going to want a return on their "investment" in training up all these bright little man/machine gods to front their navies and when it becomes apparent that the posthuman settlers are by and large completely uninterested or actively hostile to baseline human imperial struggles there will be a war of independence between the old and the new. And Riddari - I have many of the same doubts you have about the ability or will for CCP to make this most beautiful of MMORG storylines fly - but lets face it - I've never really liked Elves either so for the foreseeable future eve is the best game in town and I'm sticking with this one. Star Fraction is recruiting
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.18 15:54:00 - [5] Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 18/10/2007 15:57:00 Originally by: Rodj Blake The current PIE/EM war came about as a direct result of an AURORA event nearly a year ago, and is still being fought today. Exception that proves the rule I guess. I said "tended to" not "never". Star Fraction is recruiting
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.18 16:10:00 - [6] Originally by: Missy X Now, I personally think that's a nonsensical equation. No offense to Jade or anyone else who agrees with the OP - you're entitled to your views - but I just don't agree. Maybe it affects SOME people's ability to RP - those who only want to RP powerful people. Because... they like being powerful, I guess. But I think that's really more of a gameplay thing, not an RP thing at all. And that's my point. Scagga's point too, I believe. Well if you're going to admit it affects SOME people and that SOME people have felt that the cause of RP is diminished by this situation then by default you are admitting that there is some point, no? Gameplay is Roleplay after all - all we good immersioneers or whatnot take that view point. So if there is a game play element that means you can't RP progress in a 0.0 war without getting 30 BS pilots together and humping a cyno jammer for 30mins then surely there is a point? Sure you can RP small personal issues to your hearts content but not everyone is happy doing that - some want to play the revolutionaries and freedom fighters and cold blooded plotting nere-do-wells that want to be achieving things on the broad single server stage. And so it is an issue that there are no significant goals for small unit fighting forces in the current state of the game (hence roleplay)? See my point? Star Fraction is recruiting
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.18 16:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Ashimar Lanora Originally by: GoGo Yubari Ok, wouldn't that mean that there would exactly be a plethora of pleasurable small unit actions within the "RP PvP community", which apparently isn't true though? Yes, if you are a solo PvPer who never wants to fly in a fleet over 20 any more than 1 time a month, RP community welcomes you and you'll be happy. There is a rock and a hard place thing here though. Fleet fights over that size can be horrible too. I mean our reports from the 50 odd vs 80 odd SF/allies vs CVA/allies fleet fight on tuesday was an unplayable lag-fest for many. We've had players telling us they came to SF to avoid that kind of slideslow slugathon and really wanted the small scale sexy rapid raiding warfare of a forgotten golden age. In our case its not because we can't put up a 30-40 strong Battleship wing with a dozen cap ships in support (assuming that mr Cyno Jammer wasn't in every system in local 0.0 pretty much) - but because it doesn't really stay at that level. Current state of the game is all about the blob really. We bring 20 enemy brings 40. We bring 40 enemy brings 80. Since its all about assaulting or defending fixed positions now its even harder to strike quickly against an unaware opponent and actually get a decently even fight. POS warfare mechanics are pro-blob and everyone knows it. The servers cannot handle this and thats why the best of brightest of the 0.0 alliance members cry about lag every time they but heads and add 10310310301390139 lost ships to the GM petition queue each evening. As Svetlana and GoGo say you can get decent fights in the RP community and empire wars. I mean wardec SF and you'll get our membership in 20 ships waiting for you night after night after night until either you or we run out of a money and run away. It's going to take six weeks to three months to break our reserves - but thats small unit stuff and the protective coloration of empire population levels means there are going to be some surprise even engagements and blood fests. But the issue really is thats corp on corp level stuff purely for fighting's sake - and there aren't objectives beyond running the other guy out of money and the difference between that stuf and moving to the next level and blowing up POS is immense. 10 v 10 20 v 20 - that stuffs ace. But you begin fighting a POS holder and you'll spend the majority of your day watching you enemy safespotted inside a POS, with a few laggy fleet battles when the thing comes out of reinforced and a whole log of sitting around cursing the other guys for never jumping in without 2-3x the numbers. Its not really state of the art or something for people to aspire to experiencing. There needs to be something smaller - more immediate - more exciting. Perhaps that something can be Faction warfare - perhaps we could have the station service vulnerability delivered by reducing their hitpoints by a factor of 20. Perhaps we could have the POS guns practically unable to hit battleships. Maybe some more deployable stuff that doesn't sit behind POS shields and needs people to come out and defend it. Interesting things in system? The need for POS owners to project power and not just sit behind the shields all day long? Something. But at the moment its incorrect to hold up the 0.0 alliance game as superior to the small unit empire conflicts of the RP corps. Both sides are flawed and there needs to be a middle ground invented and I'm really hoping that CCP can deliver faction warfare into this space to give combat pilots and roleplayers and everyone else something fun to fight for in conflicts that don't involve watching slide-shows and mashing function keys while a POS shield goes down a percentile every five minutes. Star Fraction is recruiting
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.20 18:59:00 - [8] Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 20/10/2007 18:28:19 Originally by: Maggot Rodj, I dont really think you have any experience of POS attacks unless you have been on the side of the blob. It is unlikely that any of the non-territorial groups could take down a decent enemey's POS unless they and their allies were all on holiday for a week. Unless you seriously screw up - the big guy wins every time. For the record, I've been involved with the underdogs a couple of times, the most recent being the fighting against BoB and friends in FSW. It's true that numbers are vital. However, if RP groups aren't able to get the numbers together to take on the "big boys" then it doesn't automatically follow that the sovereignty mechanics are somehow prejudiced against RPers. A fair point of observation would be that current POS/Sovereignty mechanics are actually extremely biased in favour of defensive land holding alliances. Its not a matter of "getting the numbers together" its a matter of getting "double or triple the numbers together" and then committing to an extremely boring cycle of PVE play before on actually gets to the fleet battles. Just saying. Star Fraction is recruiting
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.22 15:47:00 - [9] Originally by: Archbishop Seeing Jasmine proclaim them "amatuer wars" and such is obviously an OOC remark on IGS (what IC is it??) and stuff like that likewise makes me think "oh well no use RPing with them". Incorrect actually. I described you in-character as a "military re-enactment corporation" and thats exactly the way I see you from Jasmine's perspective. This isn't just out of the hat criticism for the sake of criticism - its based on my experiences in-game during the SF war against PIE where we literally saw you disappear completely when confronted by a serious fighting force. So the comment from Jas' lips is that in-character - in the universe of new eden as your Amarrian pilots and whatnot you are basically like historical re-enactors playing a role within a role as military memorabilia fanatics in-character. This is part of your problem - you read that stuff from me said in an in-character voice on the summit and assume its not in-character but it is. Its the opinion of my character about the things your character does in space. Its not abusive, its not nasty - its just criticism and if the revolutionary guerrilla fighters of Star Fraction who don't flinch at losing 50 battleships an engagement if the cause is right tend to think Archbishop and friends are "amateur reenactors" because they go to ground after losing a couple of harbingers then thats still a completely valid IC point of view and you do yourself a disservice to consider it otherwise. Quote: Some weeks I am struggling just to log in and fill up my factory slots with week long runs before I have to log off again. At least I can type sermons in notepad at work when I think of them. That doesn't mean my RP is "dead" or we're somehow "reduced to IGS" from space. RL changes for all of us and we adjust our gameplay to accomodate it. RL has priority for me and relegates Eve and PIE to second fiddle. It doesn't mean it's a "war objective" or anything else or "activity drops" in a war diary. It's just real life. If you can't play enough to justify your rhetoric on IGS then you have to realize the problem there is you. Don't make claims you can't back up. If you continuously pretend to be something you aren't capable of actually doing then you are going to get called on it in-character. Example. Last week I challenged Garreck of the CVA to a duel in space. In order to make that an "event" or thing of worth I had to spend a couple of hundred million on a battleship, rig it, stay up to 2am in the morning and be available to actually fight the duel. (my opponent too). If I'd made the challenge and then posted an eve-mail to Garreck in game saying "sorry mate I'm too busy rl to actually fight can't we just say we fought and I won heroically" he'd have rightly laughed me off the server. But in a very real sense this is the import of the things you tend to do on IGS. Not trying to get at you here - just trying to explain why we take it so negatively when you appear to stalk our threads and derail all SF posts while denying us any quality combat in space. Hope you understand this. Star Fraction is recruiting
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.22 17:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 22/10/2007 16:11:28 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine If you can't play enough to justify your rhetoric on IGS then you have to realize the problem there is you. Don't make claims you can't back up. If you continuously pretend to be something you aren't capable of actually doing then you are going to get called on it in-character. Archie RPs a religious industrialist. I happen to think that he does this quite well. He does not RP a warrior, and I can't recall him claiming otherwise. Well this was the point Rodj. He was saying he was unhappy that I characterised him as an "amateur" part-time military re-enactor style pilot on IGS and that because Jasmine said that it was ooc - from what you say above it was an entirely reasonable IC comment. Star Fraction is recruiting
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:32:00 - [11] Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 22/10/2007 23:35:18 You are missing the point again though Archbishop. You have misinterpreted my RP statements as OOC and thatÆs youÆre issue really. You are the guy setting yourself up as the ôRP policeö saying what is and what isnÆt ôgood roleplayö. IÆm glad you are now understanding the flaw in that approach but you do have a few more issues to get the better of before its all sunshine and roses. You are an RP industrialist û I can appreciate that. But you probably should stay out of our war diary threads because you do by your own admission know absolutely nothing about the practise of waging war in Eve. Also, you are wrong to say I am the only one who has a problem with your continuous de-rails and destructive interjections on our corporation posts. IÆd stay pretty much everyone inside SF feels you do an immense disservice to your own corporation and reputation by doing this. ItÆs not a personal thing û itÆs just the general disappointment we have with your approach to RP being purely IGS talk talk and no action in space. We arenÆt being ôthe RP policeö Archbishop û but you are. By saying that if we fall short of your standards for what is IC and OOC you feel free to consider us beneath your notice while simultaneously turning ALL our RP postings into the same old arguments youÆve managed to run dry time and time again before. This current war-diary is a case in point û pretty much everyone appreciates that its a good piece of work, completely fair, creative and imaginative. Except you, and you are the guy, the self confessed non fighter, part time industrialist RP who only posts ôsermonsö on the forum for your amusement û are there bringing up the same old extremely dull statistics arguments about fleet battles six months ago rather than appreciating the development of new conflicts. Ultimately none of the comments you make can be taken seriously until you resolve your own issues first. Star Fraction is recruiting
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.23 00:44:00 - [12] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne and this could not possibly have anything to do with you hurling the same insults on ooc boards for years now? (not just regarding arch himself but pretty much regarding all non-sf friendly rp groups and their inferior way to play the game) Nope. Dunno what you're talking about there. As far as I know we're always treated other rp entities with all due respect - I think you've gotten confused somehow. Quote: also: wasnt there a lot of whinage from sf about how horribly ooc and unfair it was of the amarr bloc to call you guys sitting around the emp family station in amarr irrelevant? Nope. Once again I think you have muddled events received second hand and have missed the point of current discussions. Star Fraction is recruiting
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.23 12:13:00 - [13] Archbishop, the issue here is that there is a contradiction between your position of a) ôI donÆt choose to involve myself with SF roleplay endeavours because of our pvp-centric, space-achievement, gameplay-orientated styleö and b) ôI think its appropriate for my character to post on each and every SF thread in an attempt to debunk or demonize our in-game ideological positions.ö You see the point? If you donÆt like what we do and donÆt feel you enjoy the kind of wars we fight then you have every right and remit to ignore it. But by actively publicising your dislike through the agency of continual negative commentary on and each and every RP thread we author you are contradicting yourself. If you were actively striving in-game with spaceships, mercenaries, economic pressure or whatnot to upset and damage SF operations then it would at least be an appropriate coupling of ingame and galnet strategies, but since its purely limited to IGS propaganda it doesnÆt really improve the climate since you are tweaking the tails of pvpÆers without ever being prepared to fight the conflict you are provoking. You see the problem I hope? Your expressed desire to point out ôhypocrisyö in the fraction lifestyle is misjudged in the interested of good debate in that medium. Basically there is no correlation between our active war-campaign to demonstrate the frailty of an enemy and your repetitious posting in multiple ôwar-diaryö threads concerning other conflicts most of which have absolutely nothing to do with your character. My personal issue is not that you ôsound oocö so much as its just simply boring. You are bringing up the same arguments and issues youÆve brought up a hundred times before and have already been answered and rejected a hundred times before. You will say that you donÆt consider these things adequately answered, SF corporate officers including the Cosmopolite will tell you have been answered, fully, formally and well. There comes a time when debate and questioning becomes meaningless harangue and destructive heckling. When you have been answered many times previous û simply asking the same questions and making the same accusations becomes a purely irritating distraction and I think you can see how your reputation capital has suffered in that forum as a direct result. It doesnÆt really matter if you sound ôICö or ôOOCö û if itÆs perceived as repetitious and dull monotonic restating of the same positions youÆve stated a hundred times before then it does absolutely no good for either the cause of RP on the summit, or decent relations between RP organizations. Your ôconundrumö is not how to attack us on the summit û itÆs simple. DonÆt do it in our threads that have precisely nothing to do with your interests. DonÆt derail our war diary threads. If you want to propagandize and make up wild stories about the ôevilsö of Star Fraction in the eyes of Amarrians then make up your own threads and do it (as I note you do in each sermon) û just leave your propaganda to your own threads and weÆll have fewer problems and the standard of discussion and creative material on IGS will improve. In regard to the humiliation visited on your corporation in operation Judas Goat then weÆre just going to have to agree to disagree. We believe we utterly crushed your corporation and interests û you believe you avoided us and heroically survived the anarchist attack. Absolutely irreconcilable viewpoints and absolutely no point discussing them in more threads than the original war-diary concerned with that dispute specifically. We can live with the knowledge that youÆre character considers us ôliarsö. You are going to need to live with the fact that our characterÆs considers Archbishop a ôliarö. Arguing about it continually in a way that endlessly revisits the feud in every thread authored by our people is just mindless. It has to stop. Star Fraction is recruiting
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.23 12:14:00 - [14] IÆm telling you directly now as a player (not a character) that you are wrong to say that the questions you asked are ônever answeredö û they are always answered, I used to answer them myself in JasmineÆs voice, but after the first couple of occasions when seeing you not like what you hear and just continually ask the same question again and again I stopped bothering to answer substantively. Other SF people have found exactly the same thing and now you will be rare to find anyone from our organisation that actually responds to you in anything other than straight dismissal. What you consider to be ôhypocrisyö and ôdouble standardsö is simply not. I know its a issue youÆve had problems with since your pre-RP history as TTI and CFS but its not helping to have you represent your personal (and contested) opinions through ôRPö in this matter. As for your questions: Quote: 1. What do you want me to do? Stop de-railing war-diaries and other SF posts with endless discussions on irreconcilable viewpoints with zero chance of resolution. We are never going to view the ôjudas goatö as anything other than a complete humbling of Amarrian nationalist pride. You are never going to view it as anything other than the conceptual opposite. At some point youÆve got to just accept that you cannot proselytize that preferred outcome from your side any further. YouÆve had your say in the threads at that time period û repeating this in every thread since is just getting very boring indeed and not furthering the interests of quality RP dialogue in Eve. Quote: 2. What do you think I should do as an RPer given my current playing time? Its not my place to say. Its up to you how you spend your time in eve. All IÆm saying is that spending your time derailing and damaging the integrity of war diary threads is not doing you or your corporation any favours in the reputation stakes. Do something else. Find another ôfoeö who enjoys these endless debate-fests in the purely IGS sphere? IÆd be happy to fight you in space or fight your organization or whatnot as long as it involves combat, excitement, fleet challenge and hijinks û but I donÆt enjoy seeing my threads being derailed with copy/paste repetition of ancient irresolvable arguments. Just stop it and we have no problems. We can ôlive and let liveö and ignore your stuff as an ôRP religious industrialist prelateö on IGS û go have fun with it. Eve is a big universe û go explore other parts of it and donÆt feel obliged to try and ôdebunk and demonizeö an organisation that is beyond your ability to impact via in-game actions. Maybe find a rivalry with an Minmatar industrialist? That could be fun. Long sermons against the devilry of Matari design philosophy? Might be fun to read. Anyways, I hope you appreciate the tone of my reply to you. I genuinely wish you the best away from this somewhat corrosive feud that doesnÆt please or entertain either side of the ôconflictö. I really donÆt look forward to seeing my diaries afflicted in this way and IÆm sure you donÆt enjoy copy/pasting the same arguments week after week. Simple solution is to ignore one another and since our corporations have extremely minor interaction in game that shouldnÆt be a difficult resolution to embrace. Star Fraction is recruiting
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.23 12:27:00 - [15] Originally by: Nekumi ... and they introduce a big red button that lets you destroy outposts, so that you can leave no stone unturned if you do actually want to implement something final upon an other organisation. Sexy War Diary : Operation Terminus Est

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